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The Gyroscope Forum |
19 April 2024 22:16
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Welcome to the gyroscope forum. If you have a question about gyroscopes in general,
want to know how they work, or what they can be used for then you can leave your question here for others to answer.
You may also be able to help others by answering some of the questions on the site.
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Question |
| Asked by: |
d brown |
| Subject: |
just a ranting question |
| Question: |
Why can't centrifugal force be called one of the normal forces and be done with it.
the other normal force I know of is down. when something is down it can not go any further because of the normal force. it's the down normal force. it can go further if you move whatever it's on just like if you remove the bucket from a bucket of spinning water. the water will go further in a straight line just like if something was falling down.
that is all. |
| Date: |
1 July 2019
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Answers (Ordered by Date)
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| Answer: |
d brown - 20/07/2019 07:47:27
| | | i've found a few things on this.
Centripetal force seems to mean anything keeping something from going straight and curving its path. So gravity, a bucket, molecular bonds of a solid disk, my hand...
- i disagree. I will accept my hand in that, as i do work even to get my hand to where it will do work, without which the item would go straight; work is being done. The other 3 are just a matter of fact in 'special case' circular paths, meaning for example the molecular bonds are not being stressed to the breaking point. Of the 3 though, gravity looks more like it is doing work than the other two.
- So, I will accept my hand and gravity as centripetal force, but not the other 2; my hand's work is using up my energy and gravity is at least trying to remove potential energy from the moon-earth system and suck it down.
- The other 2 I find easier to see as normal forces. I dont see any heating that could possibly come from either one, nor any transfer or even use of energy in any shape or form. If anything, there is energy coming from elsewhere that will rip the bonds apart. They, themselves, are passengers on a FORCEd journey.
ty
fyi. if you type a long answer and get logged out before you press button to answer, you will wish you did a copy first.
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| Answer: |
Sandy - 23/07/2019 19:36:40
| | | d Brown
I can understand the academic’s argument that centrifugal force is not a real force.
However, I do take your point and for one very good reason I would tend to agree with you.
Centrifugal or (centripetal force) if you must, has a very important place in the operation of gyroscope systems.
When forcibly rotating a system containing a gyroscope (or gyroscopes) I have clearly shown that in a system of fixed rotation speed the rotation speed of the gyroscope is able to alter the angular momentum generated by the system.
Unfortunately, the change in angular momentum will for all intents and purposes be invisible to the beholder for a large range of gyroscope rotation speeds.
It is a prerequisite in the generation of inertial thrust that the levels of angular momentum are known, such that suitable differentials in the values can be created and controlled.
However, we can if need be, readily measure the angular momentum, by first acquiring the value of centrifugal force developed at that particular set of speeds
(i.e. the machine or system rotation speed and the corresponding gyroscope rotation speed)
For any change in gyroscope rotation speed there will be a corresponding change in the centrifugal force (or if you are a purist, centripetal force) developed.
Centrifugal force at least can be detected by the strategic displacement of strain gauges and amplifiers supplying through sliprings the detected and amplified signals to an Arduino type coupled screen module
I suppose telemetry would be even easier to install but I should think the 3.5 inch, screen is more amenable and much easier to read than my very good but much smaller RC transmitter visual panel,
(This incidentally is being used at the moment to receive machine rotation speed and gyroscope rotation speeds telemetry signals.)
Without the comprehensive utilisation of this much demeaned force and its simple associated mathematics there is no other simple method comes to mind which would readily supply the answers.
Regards,
Sandy.
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| Answer: |
d brown - 24/07/2019 00:33:11
| | | oh. I use both. I see centripetal as what holds you in, something like molecular bonds... And centrifugal as what keeps you from flying away.
example: A bucket of water on a string being swung in a horizontal circle.
- The string would be centripetal for the bucket.
- The bucket would be centrifugal for the water.
my bad.
So, anything to do with circular path is 'centripetal'.
Therefore 'centri-fuge' must be a compound word which got turned into a force by the UNeducated and perpetuated by the learnING.
i'm having a deja-vu.
as for any inertia thinking, i'm too anxious to try my perpetual motion setup.
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| Answer: |
d brown - 24/07/2019 17:53:58
| | | i was way off.
what i found:
cen·trif·u·gal force
noun
an apparent force that acts outward on a body moving around a center, arising from the body's inertia.
so,
essentially the scientists had a few too many to drink that night. My calling it a normal force was even in the wrong direction.
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| Answer: |
d brown - 24/07/2019 18:55:01
| | | -fuge:
a combining form occurring in compound words which have the general sense “something that repels or drives away” whatever is specified by the initial element.
and 'centrifuge' is a noun.
and 'centrifugal' refers to matters of the centrifuge.
and the 'force' part, according to merriam-webster, is being used as a verb and not a noun.
And that is why I hate english; even more-so due to the existence of the line:
"You know what I mean"
there are too many reused words. ugh. Atleast we have the word ambiguous.
In conclussion,
it should be written as Centrifugal Force/v, because the centrifuge is causing the action/reaction while doing what it was designed for and 'force' is being used as a verb.
And now I can correctly state that yes, it is centripetal force at work but the molecular bonds do not need any extra energy at each degree of rotation to keep the circular path. examples: the gyro spinning and remaining as one piece, or the bucket redirecting water and never heating it up for tea due to spin rate. Now with those two being identical to the molecular bonds, and friction due to gravity, keeping the 'down' normal force in check, they should also be grouped under 'normal forces'.
imho :)
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| Answer: |
Glenn Hawkins - 26/08/2019 01:39:38
| | | All this shxxx is too simple for words. In binary rotation (two rotating balls held together by a string) each would fly away but for the string. The balls pull outward away from one another but are not allowed to escape. The string grows taunt with resistance. The faster the rotation the harder the outward pull. There is nothing else.
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